(Some More) Thoughts (On Being the People of God)

There's been some good comments lately, and I've had some great email (and even face to face!) conversations of late.  Here's something else that's been rolling around in my head the past couple of days:

• A lot of us have been recently asking the question, "What can we do?" We've got jobs (some of us...), families, responsibilities, etc.

• This notion of being the people of God...
  • It may not be enough to "think" like the people of God
  • It may not even be enough to "believe" as the people of God
  • Perhaps this requires us to "live" as the people of God (and I might mean that in the most literal sense)

Here's what I'm going to mull over today:

When I say "I'm doing all I can" do I really mean "I'm doing all I can... without changing my lifestyle"?

The floor is open.

Comments

[Trevor Meier]

I'm wrestling through a fundamental values conflict around this issue. I am trying to live my life based on the values that (to the best of what I know) represent God's design. But in doing so I'm becoming more cynical, more jaded, more isolated because though I'm united with other believers in spirit I'm separated in body from those of similar beliefs. And so the real connections that birth, maintain and grow community are few and far between. The times we do get together often are more a (healthy) chance to express our disappointment, but because of their brevity and infrequency rarely move beyond to deeper matters.

As well, I find I'm turning into more of a workaholic than ever. God's mandate to participate with him in creation and the dire need of the world to know his Grace is such a strong motivator that, without the balance of physically nearby community, participation in God's work to save the world is overriding a lot of other healthy activities in my life.

[Mike]

That's heavy, Trevor. I can relate.

I have no doubt that "living as the people of God" means living in community. The more I chew on this stuff the more I come to realize that we're talking about something radically different than what most are doing today.

Radically different.

The other thing is this: I'm not sure, left to our own devices, we (as in humans) would ever willingly choose radical change. Usually it's forced upon us. Not sure what to do with that yet.

[Bald Man]

Mike, I'd agree with your statement whole-heartedly. My experience tells me there are some fundamental pillars that most people refuse to question when it comes to reorienting their lives around the Kingdom.

[Tim]

Guilty as charged.

[David]

To be honest I am growing tired of the sound of my own voice - calling for these changes, expressing disappointment when they do not come. All the while my life remains, from my own perspective, pretty unremarkable. Perhaps this is the sign of a healthy discontent with the status quo but I don't think so - I think it's a hunger for something more. Increasingly I am asking how little can we live on, how much can we possibly give, and while we can't save the world, we can save one at a time from hunger, the horrors of HIV/AIDS, loneliness, and the soul-suck of this culture. I think I'm scared of asking if I can do this without changing my lifestyle - that question would indicate a true sickness of heart and I fear it's terminal.

But there's hope and the more you talk about Kingdom stuff, Mike, the more it resonates and propells me. I am working harder these days too, but I sincerely think it's from love of the labour and the One for who we work (and those whom He made).

I will never own the things I once strived for - but my life is richer all the time.

Anyways, this is a round-about kind of way of saying that more committed I become to all this the more it hurts when the church disappoints, but my words only seem to make it all worse. Perhaps it's just time to shut up and put my head down and plow and enjoy the company of those who plow beside me instead of wishing there were more or resenting those that aren't plowing at all. I dunno.

[wilsonian]

Well, I stand with Tim and say 'guilty as charged'.

But David... please don't stop talking about it. Let me be perfectly self-absorbed for a moment: I seriously doubt that I would be where I am now (so imperfect, but moving in the right direction) if it weren't for folks like you and Mike (and a few others). There is something important about critcal mass with a message. If you were the only one beating that drum, I might listen... then again, I might not. But when you are part of a chorus- sound carries.

I hope I would be more apt to change my lifestyle if I believed it would make a difference. Your comment here hits hard, David. If a radical change in my life could help just one person in another part of the world... would I?

Will I?

[David]

Thanks Wilsonian. What I fear is becoming yet another person who stands up and shouts and speaks out AGAINST alot of things but does not speak FOR things. Too often I want to speak for justice or mercy or the re-calibration of the Church's message/methods and what ends up coming out feels angry, cynical, and, uh, fingerpointing-ish. I wonder sometimes if just talking about it makes me feel like I am doing it. A subtle (?) little thing that assuages my conscience but has the end result of accomplishing less then were I to shut up (or simply talk less in proportion to my actions) and simply plow.

So, in the spirit of this I think I will go write a blog post about it. Ironic huh, but at least I'm doing something! (or am i?) :-)

[Leslie]

I'd like to go back to what Trevor said at the beginning because it echoes how things were for me a year or two ago.

Then I got sick enough that I couldn't control my own destiny -- a loss of independence I could have never predicted. And as I was unable to uphold my previous standards I began to realize how much arrogant pride I held for all my "good works".

I wish it would've been possible to learn that the easy way.

I guess what I'm saying is over time I've come to realize that this sentence that I too used to live by:

When I say "I'm doing all I can" do I really mean "I'm doing all I can... without changing my lifestyle"?

has a lot of I's & my's in it.

If Trevor's frustrations are in fact similar to what mine were then I can say for me it was because I was barking up the wrong tree. Trying to do it myself. When I was forced, and I do mean forced, to give up trying to change, it was then that God breathed life into me.

It was then that the changes began to be real.

When humans move on their own steam the inner results are things like cynicism and isolation. When God moves he energizes us even if our bodies are bone weary.

We fear that if we quit trying we'll be left out of the plan. But maybe that's when the plan starts getting good.

For what it's worth.

[Mike]

It's been an interesting week or so, as today I started Week 2 of my first Spring School course, Christianity in a (post)Modern Culture, which I mentioned here.

Seeing how Christianity has been socialized, how it has been impacted by modernity (and how it contributed to modernization) has really got me thinking. I'm wondering now if we're trying to do this Christ Follower thing from deep within the comfort of the prevailing culture... being "of the world", in a manner of speaking.

That's what I mean when I talk about radical change.

[David]

Mike - Nail. Hammer. Hit on head.

[wilsonian]

I keep thinking about the whole "lose your life to gain it" deal... wondering what that looks like lived out as a lifestyle.

Also thinking about community/neighbours. If the African family struggling with the impact of AIDS lived next door, would my life look different? If we shared a house, would my life look different? Would I continue on my way... spending as I do on what I want, and offering small tokens when there was money left over? Or would I actually live my life in community with them, sharing what I had?

Distance shouldn't make such a drastic distance.

[george]

Great comments Leslie. Its when we turn from self and self effort to God and His ways, that's when we get energized.

That's the missing piece so often, loving God with all our hearts, desiring to live a righteous and pure life before Him and for Him.
When we get to that place, He then begins to fill us with Himself and things become so clear. He will then empower us to do what it is He would have us do. We no longer do it in our own strength but in His strength. John 3: 30He must increase, but I must decrease."

[wilsonian]

Well, here's the thing George... I'm in precisely the place you describe. And in that place He has lead me to as these kinds of questions and change my lifestyle in response.

What a great God we love and serve, who handles us all in the ways He knows we respond to best.

[george]

That's great Wilsonian, keep seeking Him and it will become clear.

Proverbs 3: 5Trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding. 6Seek his will in all you do, and he will direct your paths.

What an amazing truth.

[Tim]

I'm a little confused.

Of course I agree with what George and Leslie are saying. Of course human effort alone is not enough; of course we can do nothing without Christ. We come to the end of our rope, we cry out for God's mercy and grace, and we discover that it is not me working, but God working through me. Of course I need to turn away from an absorption with self, and focus on God and his grace.

But here's my problem. Yesterday I was thinking and praying for the folks at Tenth Street Church in Vancouver, and their 'Oasis' and 'Out of the Cold' programs (anyone hear how last night's meeting went, by the way? It's having a hard time competing with Oilers stories here in Edmonton!). Let's imagine I'm a member of that church. I've met Christ, I pray each day that the Holy Spirit will fill me, I grow in the fellowship of my church. I believe that Jesus calls me to follow his example and walk in his steps (as 1 Peter says), and so I get involved in the ministries of my church. I volunteer at the 'Out of the Cold' program, because I believe that God has a tender heart for the poor, and I want to learn to sing the song that sings in the heart of God.

Now - Leslie and George, am I doing it right? You see, what's confusing me is what practical difference it makes to what I actually do. Leslie says, "We fear that if we quit trying we'll be left out of the plan. But maybe that's when the plan starts getting good." I want to know what that would actually look like, in the situation I've described.

[george]

Not sure I understand the question Tim. What is it that is confusing you?

Are you asking what practical difference it makes that you are asking God to fill you and then you go do these things and you wonder if the fact that you even ask makes any difference?

In my life I ask God daily to give me a heart for those poor and downtrodden. I know that He has and that He used those people to change my life. So now as I continue to come to Him with these burdens I ask Him to show me the way. Its a journey for sure but its a great journey.

I can't do it all by myself obviously and I desperately need His help, His guidance, His strength. How do we get that is the big question. Our position before Him is the difference. Our obedience is the gateway for His blessing on our lives. We can profess our faith till the cows come home but if we aren't being obedient we will just be spinning our wheels on our own. I could go on about that, how that is just so clear in His Word but I'll wait for your response and I don't want to prevent others from commenting. (I did wait before wading in though Mike:)

[Tim]

Sorry, George - now that you point it out, I see that my question is unclear.

I guess my question relates specifically to this phrase Leslie used: "We fear that if we quit trying we'll be left out of the plan. But maybe that's when the plan starts getting good."

Now, if I'm one of those volunteers who helps out with the 'Out of the Cold' program at Tenth Street Church, what does it mean for me to 'quit trying'? What would that actually look like?

Does that question make any more sense?

[george]

Sort of , I guess its for Leslie.

[Leslie]

My point is that if looking for something to do becomes the point of primary focus, our actions then become our god. And, our trying becomes worship of ourselves. But if God is our primary focus, he'll guide our actions...and then our actions become worship of him. Working at 10th Street Church has to be great. How it plays out in the hearts of those who work there in relation to God is none of my business.

Who can map out a practical image of what will transpire? At the same time, I'm certain that God's plans to use us will yield the biggest results.

I guess the irony I find with the movements of the postmodern church is while embracing mystery it also really wants a black and white to-do list. It can't be so much a postmodern thing as a general human nature thing to want to know...in that sense I suppose it's what links each of us to the Tree of Knowledge.

So I guess what I'm saying is I don't know what it would look like, but God does.

[Tim]

So, why did you raise this possibility, Leslie? Are you saying that, for Mike and the others who frequent this blog, our focus is on 'looking for things to do' in isolation from a focus on God? I've no window into Mike's heart, of course, but I can assure you that in my case nothing could be further from the truth. I've been told by my Master that I've got a responsibility to be salt and light; finding ways to put that into practice is a matter of obedience for me, not self-justification or idolatry.

[Mike]

Well said, Tim.

I guess I object to the automatic assumption that when we talk about doing something, our motives must be less than what they should. I see that has a left-over of the evengelical hang-up over "works", which I've rambled on about before.

I'm reminded of seeing Tony Campolo speak for World Vision several times when I worked there. (I'm sure I've mentioned this before.) He would pitch child sponsorship for us, and would publically embarrass anyone who said they had to "go home and pray about it", it being a dollar-a-day commitment. I've heard him ask people if they prayed about the coffee they bought that morning (which probably cost more than the sponsorship.) In a way only Tony could get away with, he'd tell us that we don't have to pray about what God's already commanded us to do, and I agree with him.

Compassion is not a spiritual gift. It's a command for all of us.

Of course, we may want to pray about how we are going to help, but even there we need to be careful. Help while you're praying about it, if you get my drift. (Let me save you some time: 9000 people died in Africa in the past 24 hours, and there is a long list of quality groups trying to do something about it. Why not start there?)

Then, of course if we're really serious about this, we may end up thinking about how much we should help, and how our own lives should change in order to accomodate that.

Which brings us right back to the intent of the post.

[Leslie]

Neither do I have a window into anyone's heart. Right now I'm feeling like you feel you are pretty sure about what's going on in mine. I could be misinterpreting your defensiveness, I guess.

It seems to me that if laying out the trials of my last year or so and the things that it has taught me leaves people questioning my motivations then it is probably the case that I am neither a waver or a drowner and should probably crawl back up onto dry land.

Take care everybody.