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« The Evolving Church: Amidst the Powers | Main | The End of the World & World Without End »

September 28, 2008

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wilsonian

Thank you for continuing to speak truth...

brian in bc

One point needs to be made...the use of "we"...when various polls show the opposition to the "bailout" at 76%. When calls to representatives offices are 10 to 1 in opposition to this action. When the majority of the population continues to scream THIS IS NOT RIGHT! to their elected officials and yet the monster keeps marching...it's time to ask a different question. Is this democracy? Is this freedom? Is this what "the people" want? I think not.

I see that in many cases the church has gone off the rails in one of two directions...either speaking as a "voice of Caesar" wrapped in the flag. Or alternately, terrified of losing "tax free status" refusing to speak out at all from the pulpit against the disaster of econo-dictatorship which is shredding the constitution as we speak.

The problem as I see it isn't that "we" don't want to do the right thing...the problem is that the voices of the majority are not being implemented by our so called elected leaders.

(As I type this the vote stands with 21 people the difference between one way or the other...)

Mike

Wilsonian - Thanks as always for the encouragement!

Brian - Great points. Particularly when government seems to act contrary to the wishes of its people... this is exactly when the church must find its voice!

Martha

Yeah, i am pretty frustrated at what part of NO from 'we the people' congress does not understand!

It sounds like 'WE' are prepared to bite the bullet if we must; perhaps because WE have pretty much nothing to lose. Just shows yah where the hands of the congress are...they are scared of losing their millions.

brian in bc

They listened...vote failed to pass...

Now things should get really interesting...

Jeff

Good post. I'd say a good first step is to limit church expenditures (i.e. quit constructing buildings) and put at least 50% of our revenue towards poverty relief. Yeah, it's probably idealistic. So?

wilsonian

I like how you think, Jeff :)

Doug

Have you been to Washington lately? I was a few weeks ago, and it struck me that we have such a rich heritage of trusting God. Our forefathers seemed to sense the only way they could succeed is to call upon his name.

Today, quite the opposite, I see that the law makers are more worried about coming up with plans to spend billions to bailout the economy. However, it is God's economy and we can never forget that. But we have. Jeff, I think we need more idealistic solutions. . . can you imagine if we stopped building churches, and gave aid to our own communities in need. . . . wow. . . that would be a God centered solution, and we wouldn't have to call it a bailout!

Bill Kinnon

Mike,
I fear we are consumers first, Christians a distant second...if we are Christians at all. ++Sentamu's strong word against this culture of greed was weakoned, ironically, by the reality that investors for the Anglican Church used the same practises he was railing against.

Brian Bowen

Well... do we really need to stop building churches to reach out and help the poor? OR if we as believers really believed what Jesus teaches... then dont you think there would be enough for both?

Im with Bill, we seem to be consumers first and church has become all about what I need instead of how can I serve.

Even if we stopped building the buildings... if the hearts arent changed... it still becomes a "Look what I did" sort of thing.


"If the church in the west hasn't already shattered into a thousand pieces--and it may very well have--it is about to.

I believe we're at a key milestone in the history of the People of God. This is it. I've had this uneasy feeling for a long time. Years, in fact. But in the last month or so it has grown, and reached critical mass. I think I have a theological migraine."


I totaly get that and agree, a time of testing is certainly on its way for the western church

John Lunt

It's not really about the government. It's not really what our churches are doing. That's too easy. We continue to decry what the institutions are doing.

Jesus didn't spend much time speaking to institutions. He spent his time speaking to disciples. Today that's us.

I have no problem letting my government and my church know where I stand on these issues. I've been a lightning rod most of my Christian life in some things.

However, the question isn't what the institutions are going to do about it. It's what we as believers, parts of the body of christ, are going to do.

What will we give up? Where will we give it? If our "church" is insistant on paying oversized salaries to our "leaders" and building more buildings, is that where we will give? How about giving to a food bank, a neighbor in need, the homeless guy you pass by, the co-worker who is struggling. Give to Feed the Children or World vision or some group trying to get food to starving children. Don't give a little, sacrifice yourself. That's what the Lord is challenging me to do this year. I've given more than every and now I sense he wants me to give more.

Bono is right. It is moral bankruptcy. I think a lot of people already know about it. We are Kingdom people. It we start acting like it, God may do wonders. He may take our five little loaves and two fishes and multiply it to feed thousands.

nancy

i am glad to hear that the Holy Spirit is speaking to your heart and,
i believe, speaking to the body as a whole, as well.


And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

Ephesians 6:18

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