Tell Me All Your Thoughts on God: The Good News

(Where I share some half-baked theological thoughts and you respond if you wish.)

These particular thoughts came to me on the ferry this morning on my way over to Linwood House. I believe our recent conversation on atonement helped generate some of what follows. Come to think of it, those thoughts came following a ferry trip too. Must be the ocean air...

When you tell some people that Jesus died for their sins, you might get a sceptical smile, or a disinterested shrug. You're bringing an answer to a question they're not asking, a solution to a problem they don't think they have.

While we all suffer in some way from an inferiority complex, many of the people I know are not primarily walking around wracked with guilt over their mistakes, or worried about where they will find forgiveness. Oh, it's in there somewhere, but it's not their main concern. (Many of our friends in the downtown eastside would be the exception to this, but that's a different story altogether.)

They are worried about meaning, and about purpose. Why are they here? Why are any of us here? What's the point? They're not weighed down by sin, but by futility.

Jesus died to save us from our sins? So what. Jesus lived to give us purpose, to teach us what it means to be fully alive, fully human? Now that's something we can talk about.

Thoughts?

Comments

[ron cole]

I guess if you make atonement about sin, rather than the Kingdom of God...you make a case using circumstantial evidence. If it was only a death for forgiveness of sin, and a exit pass to heaven...the empire would have let him live. But the crucifixion was a crime scene, the death of an innocent man filled with God, and passion for God's Kingdom of justice. But when the murderers investigate their own crime you get there atonement. The empire tired to erase the reality of the Kingdom from the human imagination...God said " no " and raised the Kingdom, rebooting the human imagination.

[maureen]

I woke up today with this thought...it's not the size of the gift rather the size of the sacrifice that counts. Does this flow somehow into your stream? I know it's nothing new but it was crystal clear at first light this morning for me.

[Jon]

My 2 cents worth. I think the good news of the kingdom of God (or reign of God) that Jesus and his disciples preached from town to town would sound similar to this:

"Did you know God's power is available to you? You don't have to do everything in your own strength and wisdom. If you allow God to rule in your life, instead of your selfish ambitions He will restore your life to what it was intended to be."

I think this good news message would meet people where they are at. And it may be the good news message we were commanded to share with the world.

God bless!

[Jonathan Brink]

I wonder if the problem is not with God, who can easily get tucked into the background, but in our relationships with ourselves, our spouses, and our friends. We can't avoid guilt because we mess up. And when we lose relationship we encounter that guilt. We wonder. So in some respects we still need atonement for every relationship.

[Jon]

I'm back... I guess I love this topic. :)

I agree that the typical gospel message is answering a question most people are not asking. Putting it another way.

"Good news. Jesus became your last sacrificial lamb. You don't have to kill any more animals to be close to God."

This truth may have been good news to the Jews in Jesus day. But it doesn't have the same appeal to non-Jews today who have never considered killing an animal to get close to God.

But the main good news message that Jesus preached... the good news of the reign of God... that message has great implications for me today.

Jesus is Lord!

[robert]

pardon the intrusion, Mike, but it seems to me that focusing entirely on his death is almost entirely missing the point. Jesus gave us a blueprint for how to live, not a blueprint on how to die.
Frankly, I'd love to live my life as he lived his (big picture, you understand, I still like my stuff; I'd just like to like it less) but I have no interest in dying like he did.

[Mike]

Great comments friends, thanks. And Robert, never an intrusion, especially on this subject.

[Robert #2]

Thuth does not come from ocean air. It comes from the Word of God.

Jesus Death big deal?

Without death there is no salvation.

Romans 6:3–5 (NIV)
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.

Jesus lived to tell us the truth.

[chuck aka xtnyoda]

Might be difficult to embrace all of Christ without embracing... all of Christ.

Does Christ comes in... segments?

[Mike]

Chuck - I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at... can you help me out? (And thanks.)

[chuck aka xtnyoda]

Sure.

Can we really expect to separate the Christ life and benefits... without first entering through his sacrifice?

Can one enter into His life... without first entering into his death?

[Mike]

Chuck - I really appreciate you coming back and engaging.

I've got to be honest. I'm 45 years old. I've been a Christian my entire life. I've heard sentences like yours above my whole life and the truth is I don't know what they mean anymore. (Not only have I heard them, I've uttered them too!) When you get up tomorrow morning, what will be different because you've done what you've said above? And how is it different/better/more Christian than what I'm suggesting?

What does it mean, and how does it contribute to the carrying out of God's plan for Creation?

[chuck aka xtnyoda]

I guess I'm kind of focused on the starting point Mike... with the statement about "so what."

I'm thinking of baseball for example... there is a sequence required to score a run. First you have to bat. Then you have to hit the ball, get hit by the ball, or walk to get on base.

You've got to go to first base before you advance to second base... etc.

I'm kind of seeing the benefits of purpose and meaning sort of like second base... but doesn't one need to at least get on the team first?

Thanks!

[Mike]

Well, if you're saying that people need to be on Jesus' team before they can participate in the plan, then I would respectfully disagree, which brings us back to where we started. I'm not sure that's what you're saying though.

Appreciate the dialogue.

[idelette]

1. I had some questions about "the cross" several years ago. I actually said to God: "What's the big deal about the cross? You gotta tell me, please." So I lived the question for quite a while until I got an answer--a moment of Light--that was so crazily, uniquely, Divinely shaped for my heart, I couldn't deny it. And I can't get away from it, because it was, and still is, so powerful. So even though I can't stand tired phrases like "Jesus died for my sins" I can't deny the essence of that. There's Light there. If only i can get my tongue around better words to express it.

It might have to be a conversation some time.

I don't even know if it speaks to the core question in your heart. Anyway ... tossed in my bit.

[chuck aka xtnyoda]

I don't think anyone would want to stay in the batters box... we want to move forward in the journey with Christ for sure.

But... don't you think there is a relevance in the starting point of the journey?

Thanks!

[Mike]

Chuck - I love a metaphor as much as the next person, but I'm losing touch with what we're actually discussing here! Can you reground me in what you're saying?

[chuck]

I'm of course new to your sight... and am of course an evangelical. You've probably figured that out though! :-)

I guess I would ask if it's not necessary to be "born again".. you know the lingo... before one actually has the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of a... personal Christ?

No doubt... many western folks don't sense a need for a "savior"... but... can we really make the entry into His reign without entering via the cross?

Has the cross really become that... offensive... that we need to neglect it's message?

I'll also admit that I'm a good bit older than you so... you know... the cross is a cherished symbol to us geezers.

Thanks again.

[Tom]

Jesus died to spare me a bout with poor self-esteem? Dr. Phil does that and he's not even dead yet....

[Mike]

Hey Chuck - Sorry to leave you hanging... it's been a crazy couple of days. I guess I'd ask what you mean be the benefits of a personal Christ. And I don't think we're talking about neglecting the message of the cross. It's more like I'm questioning what that message actually is.

Always glad to have the geezers speaking up. One of the shortcomings of our current culture is the lack of inter-generational wisdom and experience transfer... but don't get me started on that subject.

Looking forward to more dialogue. Thanks.